The Intestine-Mind Connection & Its Impact on ADHD in Children with Dana Kay

Baby: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

Katie: Hey, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and I’m again for spherical two with at present’s visitor, Dana Kay, about supporting youngsters with ADHD by way of a multifaceted strategy. When you missed our first episode, the hyperlink for that’s within the present notes, and we go deep on a food-first strategy, even supplemental to remedy or rather than remedy, to actually supporting our kids’s dietary and inflammatory and detox wants if they’re working by way of the signs of ADHD.

On this episode, we go even deeper on the gut-brain connection and the way this has such a dramatic and direct affect on the symptomology of ADHD. She shares some actually stunning statistics, together with that over 54% of American youngsters are recognized with some form of continual situation and the way 80% of the immune system lives within the intestine, in addition to 95% of serotonin within the physique and 50% of dopamine are produced within the intestine. She talks about how this can be a two-way communication pathway between the intestine and the mind and the way they each have an effect on one another fairly dramatically. This episode additionally will get very sensible when she talks about testing that may assist you get an correct image of what’s occurring within the intestine and in the remainder of the physique in a toddler that’s working by way of ADHD, in addition to mostly useful dietary supplements and dietary interventions with caveats on how one can personalize these to your baby based mostly on testing. I say so typically on right here that we’re every our personal main healthcare supplier, and I really feel like she provides some very sensible and actionable recommendation on how one can step into that position in case your baby is struggling by way of ADHD. So let’s be a part of her and be taught now. Dana, welcome again. Thanks for being right here once more.

Dana: Thanks a lot for having me.

Katie: Effectively, in the event you guys missed it, our first episode had some actually superior foundational recommendation and strategy to serving to your baby if they’ve signs of ADHD. And on this one, I’m actually excited to construct on that dialog and go deep on the gut-brain connection, which I’m guessing most individuals listening have definitely heard of at this level. And we perceive that there’s a connection there and the way vital intestine well being is. However statistically, that is additionally an space that Individuals particularly haven’t nice knowledge on and are combating somewhat bit. And it’s unhappy after we see that, particularly affecting our youngsters considerably disproportionately. So I’d like to form of dive deep into this subject at present and possibly give us some foundational understanding of what’s occurring within the intestine in a toddler who’s presenting with ADHD signs.

Dana: Effectively, I believe it will get missed a lot. And I want there was much more, you understand, science and literature on it. I imply, there’s a rising physique of proof for certain. However I believe that, you understand, I need to begin off with some statistics. , in our final episode, we talked concerning the enhance of the diagnoses of illness in our kiddos. And it’s presently estimated, they haven’t up to date the research, however in 2018, it was estimated that 54% of American youngsters had been recognized with a continual sickness. And that’s greater than half our kiddos. And that determine was solely 15% a few years earlier than that. And each time I hear that statistics, I’m simply floored. I’m shocked at that enhance. , we’ve bought one in two having anxiousness or bronchial asthma. We’ve bought, you understand, sort 1, sort 2 diabetes, epilepsy, cystic fibrosis, coronary heart issues. Studying disabilities, hyperactivity, sinus infections, ear infections. One in 5 have allergy symptoms. One in six have developmental delays. And one in 32 have autism.

And we have now to cease and we have now to ask ourselves, why do we expect that rise is going on so quickly? And that was in 2018. I ponder what it’s now. And for my part, the reply is straightforward. All of it begins within the intestine. 80% of the physique’s complete immune system is throughout the intestine wall, together with billions of nerve cells and an in depth quantity of useful intestine micro organism. So all of our well being, particularly our kiddos, is sort of actually related to all the things that happens within the intestine. And I’ve numerous households that come to me for steering with their kiddos’ ADHD signs. And once I ask them, if there’s any household historical past of illness, folks normally inform me that everybody’s match and wholesome, their weight loss plan’s fairly good. However once I form of press ahead and ask whether or not their baby has been on antibiotics or suffered from diarrhea or constipation, they typically inform me that they’ve they usually’re truly shocked to be taught that it’s not wholesome or regular. , it could be quite common but it surely’s a byproduct of an unhealthy intestine. After which I ask if their child’s been on a number of antibiotics after they had been youthful and a large proportion of these youngsters had. And as I form of talked about final time, I truly want that I saved a tally of what number of children had truly been on antibiotics up to now out of the households that I’ve spoken to. , I’d most likely estimate 70% to 80% of them have.

However what occurs with these antibiotics, they work by killing micro organism or stopping it from rising additional. However sadly, most of those antibiotics can’t distinguish between that good and that unhealthy micro organism. So which means they will wreak havoc on the intestine’s wholesome micro organism. And many individuals truly endure lasting adjustments to their intestine flora because of taking antibiotics. Individuals don’t notice that. And so, you understand, a few of these children have been on a number of rounds. , we’ve bought a big proportion of those youngsters being on a number of antibiotics, and that’s in flip compromising their intestine. And when the intestine is compromised, on condition that there’s 80% of your entire immune system throughout the intestine partitions, it’s type of not an enormous shock to see that issues and diseases are on the rise. In order that’s form of only a lay of the land of the intestine.

However, you understand, individuals are on the market most likely questioning, properly, what’s that bought to do with ADHD? I believe tying intestine well being to the mind well being is vital. And what that gut-brain connection means is that our brains are deeply related to our guts. And if our guts aren’t functioning properly, our brains gained’t have the ability to perform properly. There’s these two-way chemical messengers that go from the intestine and to the mind and vice versa by way of the vagus nerve. And I type of like to make use of this little analogy. , if you’re nervous about one thing, you get butterflies in your abdomen otherwise you would possibly really feel a bit nauseous. That’s your mind telling your intestine, like, you understand, perceiving hazard. It’s telling, it’s that communication. And however the reverse can also be true. So the intestine can also be speaking to the mind. And one of many principal areas that’s chatting with the mind is that frontal lobe. And that frontal lobe is chargeable for issues like consideration and focus and government perform, planning, organizing, drawback fixing. I’m undecided if you understand a lot about ADHD, however do these sound like areas which might be affected by ADHD?

Katie: Yeah, completely.

Dana: Yeah. So like, you understand, if listeners on the market are acquainted with widespread ADHD signs, they need to positively sound like that. Kids with ADHD typically battle with all of these duties. And since that frontal lobe is of their mind, many individuals are underneath the impression it’s the mind that’s what wants care, when in actuality, it’s additionally the heart that’s inflicting an issue.

The most important kicker for me, although, and once more, lots of people don’t form of tie emotional regulation to ADHD, but it surely’s truly one of many actually widespread signs that I see. Mainly, our intestine makes 95% of our serotonin and 50% of our physique’s dopamine. These are produced within the intestine. These are our hormones or our neurotransmitters that assist us handle our feelings. They assist us stability our temper they usually assist our cognitive perform. And, you understand, emotional dysregulation is a type of signs that stops the entire household, these tantrums, these meltdowns. However many mother and father don’t notice that this emotional dysregulation begins within the intestine the place that serotonin, the place that dopamine are made. So the issue then will not be the feelings themselves, however the truth that the right amount of those important neurotransmitters usually are not being made within the first place. In order you possibly can see, by engaged on to enhance intestine well being, many mother and father of kids with ADHD discover that that emotional dysregulation drawback clear up themselves. The mind begins focusing higher. And all of those abilities begin coming into play the place their children are in a position to thrive.

Katie: Yeah, I don’t know if I even shared this earlier than on the podcast, however truly a number of years in the past in preparation for a podcast about mind scans with a neuroscientist, I did a mind scan. And one of many questions he requested in that was, has your ADHD ever gotten in your means? And I used to be like, oh, attention-grabbing. No, as a result of that’s truly the primary I’ve heard of it. However I can see, you understand, in understanding the symptomology, how that was most likely current for me, particularly all through childhood. And so it’s one thing I’ve been concerned about studying about an increasing number of.

And I really like that you simply speak about that two-way communication between the intestine and the mind, due to course, whereas this may imply {that a} disturbance in a single creates a disturbance within the different, to me, that additionally tells us there’s a twofold means that we are able to start to deal with this. And if we take that multifaceted strategy, we are able to create a constructive suggestions loop moderately than a unfavourable one and form of see that compounding profit because the physique adapts.

I additionally would guess that many mother and father listening, as I mentioned within the final episode, I used to be a child who bought antibiotics quite a bit. And I’d guess many mother and father listening, their children had antibiotics in some unspecified time in the future. And, you understand, the statistics round which might be fairly sobering. I’d love so that you can communicate to if our baby has already had antibiotics, what does that imply? Is there hope? Can that be repaired? How can we assist if we all know that issue is there?

Dana: Yeah, look, I believe that we don’t beat ourselves up if that occurs. I can let you know that my son, we used to stay in Singapore earlier than we moved to America, and they’re very heavy-handed with their antibiotics. And so he was truly on most likely about 5 rounds of antibiotics from the age of two to 3 and a half. However there’s nothing I can do about that now. When you understand higher, you type of do higher. However I’d say there are such a lot of issues that households can do if that’s the case. It’s not hopeless. And, you understand, we mentioned earlier on the opposite episode, children are so resilient. When you can begin to make small, sluggish adjustments simply in the way in which they eat or bringing in some dietary supplements to focus on particularly what’s occurring of their intestine, these children can begin to get higher and higher and higher, generally in as few as a number of weeks.

I can let you know that once I modified my son’s weight loss plan and acquired in some base dietary supplements, I did some practical lab testing. I can speak about that in a second. However actually inside three to 4 weeks, he was a distinct child. , up till that point, he might by no means sit down on a chair, even for 10 minutes to eat breakfast or dinner. He would bounce off the partitions. His meltdowns, his tantrums had been a number of occasions a day, they usually had been epic. We lived on this emotional rollercoaster. However actually inside three to 4 weeks, these meltdowns and people tantrums diminished a lot. His physique began to settle down. He was truly in a position to sit nonetheless for the primary time in years.

And so, you understand, even simply altering the way in which that you simply eat breakfast and even bringing in some further fruit or greens, these small steps can begin to change the intestine microbiome. I’m not going to speak about superior methods and getting your child to eat, you understand, sauerkraut or fermented meals as a result of, you understand, that’s going to take some time. My children nonetheless don’t actually like fermented meals. They like a number of of them, however, you understand, we’re not speaking about issues which might be utterly out of attain right here. We’re beginning to speak about, you understand, some small, sluggish adjustments that households could make. Doing a stool check, seeing what’s the state of the intestine? Are there any parasites? Are there any micro organism? Are there any, you understand, overgrowth of that unhealthy micro organism? Is there leaky intestine? Is there yeast overgrowth? And as soon as you understand which you can begin to once more, make some particular dietary adjustments on your baby, and you can begin to herald some dietary supplements that may goal what’s occurring in there and begin therapeutic that intestine.

Katie: I really like that. So let’s go somewhat deeper on the testing aspect, as a result of I do really feel like, particularly if there’s some uncertainty about what’s truly occurring, it’s useful to even simply have like somewhat little bit of a tangible data of what’s occurring inside to concentrate on, to begin seeing adjustments and that reinforcement over time that these adjustments could be serving to. So what testing do you generally advocate if you start working with households?

Dana: Yeah, look, I need to say one thing. Look, you understand, sadly a number of the practical lab testing will not be coated by insurance coverage. And it breaks my coronary heart each time somebody can’t afford it as a result of, however what I need to say to these households on the market that may’t afford it, I can let you know that all the things that I train on my podcast, on my YouTube channel or no matter, you possibly can implement with out doing these practical lab testing. However a number of households simply need that knowledge. They want that knowledge to inform them it’s okay to make these adjustments. It’s essential take away gluten as a result of that lab check says, however I can let you know with the quantity of households that I’ve labored with, each child with ADHD must take away that gluten to assist that irritation begin lowering.

However practical lab testing is form of like, simply as there are causes of the signs of a cough, like flu or bronchitis, there are causes of those continual diseases. And these signs, they’re similar to this warning signal from the physique that one thing else is mistaken. And the one option to deal with it’s to have a look at what’s occurring inside that physique with practical lab testing, you understand, in case your baby is melting down or having a tantrum a number of occasions per week, that’s not regular. That’s an indication from their physique. Mother, Dad, please assist me. One thing’s occurring. So the purpose of that lab testing is actually there to establish and take away these underlying malfunctions and blocking components and actually return the physique to that standard perform. So moderately than simply working to deal with signs or placing a Band-Help over them, we get that practical lab testing. And it’s type of like this little bit of a magnifying glass inside our inside our baby’s physique.

So there are there are 4 base checks that I exploit with the households that I work with. There are numerous extra on the market and I do use them if I must however these are type of a place to begin. The primary is that stool check that’s going to actually give us that that clear image of the state of the intestine you understand I already talked about what we have a look at there. gut-brain connection is numero uno and in order that’s a extremely, actually good one to do. Not all are created equal, although. Lots of the know-how is altering, so it’s actually vital to be updated with what’s the very best know-how at the moment in figuring out that stool. Sadly, conventional docs on the market would not have entry to a few of these practical stool checks, in order that they’re actually solely testing such a small quantity of parasites and micro organism, probably not getting that complete image.

The subsequent check we use for youths is a meals sensitivity check that appears for inflammatory reactions within the physique to sure meals. The vital factor with meals sensitivity is I do know there’s a number of form of controversy round meals sensitivities on the market, however they’re not true allergy symptoms, however they do trigger irritation. And the purpose to begin in our youngsters is to cut back that irritation. So if we are able to simply know straight up what are a few of the meals which might be inflicting that irritation, it’s going to present us a extremely good head begin in our therapeutic course of. And as soon as we are able to heal the intestine, we are able to begin to add these meals again in.

What occurs with meals sensitivities is a number of our youngsters have one thing known as intestinal permeability, which is principally leaky intestine. And there’s these giant holes within the lining of the intestine. And after we eat meals, even the healthiest meals, earlier than it’s had an opportunity to be digested, it may possibly undergo these holes within the lining into our blood. And the way in which the physique’s designed is that when one thing overseas goes into our bloodstream, the physique acknowledges it as an invader and it activates this inflammatory response. And if that meals is there extra typically, it’s going to proceed to create that inflammatory response and proceed to interrupt down the liner of the intestine. So we have now to take away these meals to cease that irritation in an effort to heal that intestine.

The third check that I have a look at is an natural acid check. One in all my favourite. It seems to be at over 70 completely different vital markers in the entire physique and the way it’s functioning. It could actually present you the necessity for particular vitamins like B nutritional vitamins, which is tremendous vital for our youngsters with ADHD. It could actually search for additional weight loss plan modifications, so issues like salicylates and oxalates. They’re chemical compounds present in a few of the most healthiest meals. It seems to be at our cleansing pathways. It seems to be at our neurotransmitters, so our serotonin, our dopamine. It’s our mitochondria, that are the powerhouse of our cells. It’s additionally yeast, mildew. I imply, mildew, I can’t let you know what number of children I see which have mildew riddled of their physique, and it’s truly turning into fairly a little bit of an epidemic, and other people don’t notice that. That natural acid, whereas it’s not the very best check for mildew, it does give us that overview, a extremely good bang for our buck as a result of we get a number of completely different markers there.

After which the final one, which lots of people don’t speak about, is one thing known as a cryptopyrrole check. Pyrroles are a standard chemical byproduct in our physique. And what occurs is that if we’ve bought a genetic predisposition to pyrroles, plus we’re in a state of irritation or oxidative stress, our physique will produce these elevated ranges of pyrroles they usually’ll come out within the urine. However they’ve this actually massive affinity for zinc and B6, and it attaches to them and it attracts them out of the physique after they’re excreted by way of the urine. So if somebody has elevated urine cryptopyrrole ranges, it ends in a dramatic deficiency of zinc and B6. However it’s continuously recognized in behavioral issues, ADHD, melancholy, aggression, violent habits. Among the signs are like poor tolerance to bodily or emotional stress, poor anger management, temper swings, poor short-term reminiscence, tactile sensitivities, gentle and sound sensitivities. Lots of these are widespread signs of ADHD. And I’d say in all the children that I’ve examined, most likely about 60% of them have elevated ranges of pyrroles when in the event you have a look at the entire society, I believe the proportion is barely about 10% of individuals, whereas it’s about 60% of the inhabitants that I’m . So that they’re the 4 form of like base checks that actually give us that high-level view of what’s occurring in these kiddos’ our bodies.

Katie: That’s fascinating. And I’ve not heard that advice earlier than. In order that’s an important one that oldsters can have a look at and a brand new perception. I’ll after all, be sure I hyperlink to your assets accessible that go deeper on all of this, in addition to the place folks can be taught from you, how one can discover these items, how one can work with you. However that additionally brings me to the query about, you talked about generally dietary supplements will be useful. And I do know we stay in a time when even Chris Kresser, who was type of the king of meals first is now saying there comes a time the place we have now to get issues from dietary supplements. Like our meals provide merely doesn’t have sufficient of those vitamins anymore. And I’d guess you’ve additionally seen patterns right here within the work that you simply do. I after all, additionally advocate for meals first, get it from vitamin every time doable. And it looks as if we are actually in a time of each and. So I believe step one is strategy your meals, not as phrases of energy or macros, however when it comes to how can I maximize the nutrient density, the anti-inflammatory properties, the nutrient ranges normally in my meals. After which as soon as that’s dialed in, generally extra customized, direct supplemental strategy will be actually useful or crucial. So, are there any patterns that emerge with the caveat, after all, that each human is particular person and we’ll want somewhat little bit of an individualized strategy, however ones that generally happen in youngsters with ADHD?

Dana: Yeah, for certain. I really like that you simply mentioned that, you understand, each baby is a bio particular person, that means that everybody is exclusive. So what works very well for one baby would possibly present somewhat impact for one more. I keep in mind this one time earlier than I knew what I do know, I noticed on some Fb group that, you understand, magnesium was the marvel complement and their children had a lot extra enchancment. And so I ordered on Amazon and I used to be so excited to get it. I couldn’t wait. And I gave it to my son. Epic meltdowns for the subsequent 4 days. Clearly, not what’s what he wanted. So, you understand, that’s an enormous caveat there. We have to guarantee that we’re approaching supplementation with every baby in thoughts.

However that being mentioned, there are a number of there that I do love for youths with ADHD and ones that appear to be the best for most youngsters. The primary one is an efficient high quality fish oil for that stability of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. And there are such a lot of research on the market to assist that fish oil can actually assist that reminiscence, hyperactivity, clear pondering, behavioral dysfunction points, group abilities, like there are numerous numbers of research. In order that’s most likely primary. Lots of our youngsters gained’t eat fatty fish or sardines and seeds and issues like that. And that’s why a superb high quality fish oil may help there.

An excellent high quality probiotic. Intestine-brain connection, we deliver it again to that. Probiotics can actually assist cleansing. They may help with therapeutic the intestine. They may help balancing the great micro organism with that unhealthy micro organism. It could actually assist with anxiousness, temper. It additionally helps the physique towards damaging psychological and bodily results of stress. Most probiotics out of the market can’t truly survive digestion. And so whereas they take the probiotic and also you may need one other stool check after which that micro organism is an efficient quantity now, if you cease taking it, it’s gone away. And I truly wish to say that a number of probiotics out there will simply just be sure you have a number of costly poop as a result of it does find yourself simply going outdoors within the poop. I truly like spore-forming probiotics, which truly reseed the intestine. And I type of like to consider it, you understand, in springtime, we get the seeds and we sprinkle out our grass to permit no matter grass or no matter flowers the grass desires to develop, it is going to develop. That’s type of what spore-forming probiotics are. It’s truly reseeding the intestine after which the intestine will develop what it wants. So they’re surviving digestion. That’s why I desire these spore-forming probiotics.

Magnesium. Effectively, I mentioned it didn’t work for my baby again then. It does now. He had a number of different issues occurring that we would have liked focused first, however mother and father discover that magnesium makes a stunning distinction of their child’s anxiousness and melancholy. It aids in sleep. It additionally helps with hyperactivity. And there are analysis research on the market that present that children with ADHD typically have low magnesium ranges. So utilizing supplementation can actually have an important impact with particular ones that cross the blood mind barrier. They may help calming. They may help sleep. They may help muscle. I imply, magnesium is used for over 300 biochemical processes within the physique. So it’s type of vital.

And the subsequent one is vitamin D. Get your children out within the solar. Vitamin D, it may possibly work wonders for everyone, particularly when taken with a complement of omega-3 fatty acids. I’ll say I stay in Seattle, Washington. We would not have a number of sunshine. We have now a number of rain right here. Perhaps for 5 weeks of the yr, the solar is out. I truly do take a vitamin D complement year-round. I’m chronically low in vitamin D. I’ve executed my genetics, and there are three genes that in the event you’re mutated in, your physique can’t convert the vitamin D by way of into the activated type. They will’t transport it properly, they usually can’t activate it into the positioning. Sorry, they will’t take up it into the positioning of activation, both into the cells. So I’m chronically low it doesn’t matter what. Even when I lived in a spot that was tremendous sunny. So for me, vitamin D is tremendous vital. Similar with my son. So figuring out your genetics type of does assist as properly. Greatest pure option to get it’s going outdoors into the solar. But when that’s not doable, a vitamin D complement will also be very, very useful.

And zinc. Zinc is tremendous vital for all of our neurotransmitters. It actually helps with temper. And it’s additionally actually indicated in cryptopyrrole, like what I discussed. So I discover that a number of our kiddos are poor in zinc due to cryptopyrrole. And so bringing in zinc supplementation will assist with that. One factor you need to get checked out out of your physician can also be your iron and your ferritin ranges. That has additionally been researched rather a lot with children with ADHD. However I by no means counsel taking iron except you understand that you simply’re low.

Katie: That was such a superb primer on the beginning locations to look, particularly with dietary supplements. And I’ll echo what you mentioned about magnesium for youths normally. And I can solely think about, particularly for youngsters who’re working by way of ADHD, however for mothers as properly, like motherhood is busy and exhausting and overwhelming. And we regularly test all of the packing containers of that, all of the components that may moreover deplete magnesium. Mothers nearly at all times test all these packing containers. In order that’s what I really feel most mothers, if not all, profit from having magnesium as properly. In order that’s one in the event you’re not already taking, possibly experiment with.

And on the vitamin D aspect, one useful resource I discovered lately that could be useful to others as properly known as D-Minder, which is an app that lets you understand how a lot, based mostly in your pores and skin sort and your location, how a lot vitamin D you could be getting throughout your solar publicity. And it additionally helps be sure you’re not pushing into the window the place you would possibly burn, however whereas getting the brilliant gentle and solar publicity you want. So in the event you guys need a tangible useful resource that will help you form of titrate your solar publicity for optimum profit, I’ve discovered that one useful as properly.

And I do know like you could possibly most likely give PhD stage programs on this and we might communicate for 12 hours and never get by way of all of it. However fortunately, you might have created an unbelievable quantity of assets to assist households particularly with this. So for anybody who’s making an attempt to assist a toddler with ADHD and desires to actually dive deep and continue to learn, the place can they begin and what assets would you level them towards?

Dana: Yeah, positively try my web site, adhdthriveinstitute.com, my YouTube channel, adhdthriveinstitute.com. I’ve a number of coaching on there. I truly provide free masterclass. You possibly can join that on my web site. My best-selling e book, Thriving with ADHD, which is a pure information to serving to your baby with ADHD Thrive, that’s accessible on Amazon.

Katie: Wonderful. I’ll be sure all these hyperlinks are within the present notes at wellnessmama.com for any of you listening on the go, in addition to some assets I discovered in your web site that had been unbelievable, even in researching for this episode. However I simply need to let you know, I deeply respect the work you’re doing. I do know this can be a rising difficulty that many mothers are actually making an attempt to assist their youngsters by way of. And I’m so grateful for all of the work you do to make that accessible and simpler for the mothers who’re within the trenches doing that work. And only for all that you simply share on this planet. Thanks a lot on your time and for all the things you shared at present.

Dana: Thanks a lot, Katie.

Katie: And thanks, as at all times, for listening and sharing your most beneficial assets, your time, your power, and your consideration with us at present. We’re each so grateful that you simply did. And I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the subsequent episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.

When you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or assessment on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually respect your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.